- [Kari] Good morning and good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for joining us today. Gonna give us another minute or two to let some people join before we get started. Oh, good morning, good afternoon, everybody. My name is Kari Kernen. I am the Sales Development Manager here at TPGi. I just wanna thank everyone for joining us today for How to Retrofit your Self-Service Kiosk for Usability and Accessibility, with Laura Miller and Traci Murray. Just a few housekeeping items before we get going. This session is being recorded, and we will email everyone the recording after the event. We have captions available, so feel free to use those, if needed. And lastly, we'll have time for live Q&A, and please use the Q&A box. We'll answer as many questions as we can, either throughout or at the end of the presentation. I'll let our host decide how they want to answer those. With that, I'll let Laura and Traci get started and provide introductions of themselves.

- Thank you Kari, for the introduction, briefly. My name is Laura Boniello Miller, and with me is Traci Martin Murray. I have been with Vispero for three years and came from the kiosk space, kiosk software space, working on kiosk accessibility, kiosk security. For the last few years, I've been doing work with JAWS screen reader for kiosk and the kiosk accessibility specialization. And worked on the Canadian Standards Committee, some other working groups for kiosk manufacturers accessibility. And I have with me Traci Murray, and I'm so excited to welcome her to our team. She's been around for about, maybe a month now. But we are so happy to have her because she hails from the kiosk manufacturing space. So we have a wealth of new knowledge from, new and old knowledge, from the kiosk manufacturing space with Traci's addition to the team. She is the director of business development as well. And so she has over 20 years of experience in the hardware, self-service kiosk space. Most recently, she was director of healthcare for kiosk sales for Olea Kiosks, and has a wealth of knowledge about kiosk projects across a broad breadth of different verticals, a lot of knowledge on the manufacturing and the full deployment side of things. And so, Traci welcome.

- Well, thank you so much. Thank you for the introduction, and thank you for everybody for jumping on today and joining Laura and I to talk about the kiosk for accessibility. Move my screen here. Why is this presentation helpful for all you that have jumped on and those that you're gonna be able to give the recording over to? If you're in an existing deployment now, this is gonna help you learn how to update your project. If you're starting a pilot project, this is gonna help you make your project accessible from the start. So we're gonna talk about software too, at the hardware with the devices, kiosk placement-- and with that coming through. So with that, let's go ahead and get started here and talk about the accessibility standards.

- So , that we focused on from a business perspective. Vispero, parent company of TPG Interactive. TPG does a lot of accessibility, digital services, accessibility consulting, for instance. And so one of the things that we focus on are looking at both usability and accessibility in combination. So talking about accessibility standards, what are we working from? What are we being told? And then looking at what it actually means and how to make kiosks usable. So for government-funded projects, Section 508 is a standard that you'll see a lot for. So Section 508, there's some specific standards in there. Other standards that will apply depend on your location and your industry, such as the ADA, the Air Carrier Access Act, CVA, performance objectives, voluntary voting system guidelines, telecommunications. Canadian standards include the CSA standard. and then broadly and internationally, WCAG. Looking at 2.1, 2.2. So basically those are, that's just a laundry list of standards that need to be considered when you're trying to check off the boxes for accessibility, but that's not all we look at. We look at really what makes a kiosk usable to, and particularly to people with disabilities. But as we all know, when you make things accessible and usable for people with disabilities, you're actually typically improving accessibility for everyone and usability for everyone. So Trace, that's Traci, that's you.

- So what makes the kiosks accessible? So that would, we're gonna talk about, again, about the placement. How the placement of the kiosk in one area of your building to a different area makes sense. How is that conformed to it? The hardware design, software design, and then the voice output and screen reader. So when we're talking about kiosk placement in the environment, some of the things that we need to be considering.

- Great. So when you're out and about, and you are using kiosks, which we see everywhere, and when we talk about kiosks, we're talking about vending machines, we're talking about anything with a touch screen that is a closed system. It doesn't have to be what we, what I say and mean when I talk about kiosks doesn't necessarily, isn't what you necessarily think of when you hear kiosks. So just briefly locker kiosks, grocery lockers that you go, and you sort of have to enter some information and pull out your groceries. Those are all kiosks. And so we've seen that when kiosks are placed in different locations, even a very accessible kiosk hardware piece can be inaccessible because people can't get to it. And so we give an example of the sidewalk being all sort of, that's not wheelchair accessible, right? There's so there's an image of a sidewalk that's all crumbly up on the screen. And then there are particular standards about how much clearance you need around a obstacle, or around the kiosk, in order to allow people to approach it. So you wouldn't have a kiosk or self-service lockers located up a flight of stairs or up a couple of stairs that doesn't have ramp access, or is unsafe for someone to be at the top of without enough clearance on it for a wheelchair or a keen user to be able to open the lockers without finding themselves at the back of the stairs. So placement is really important, and that's something that as we talk about retrofitting, that's something that is a fairly inexpensive fix, relocating the kiosk comparative to like the cost of the kiosk itself, right? So that's just something to mention and to consider from the beginning. So I said this already, but a piece of hardware may be fully accessibility in the warehouse or in the manufacturing plant, but when you move it to a site, it could be too big for the space, inaccessible to a wheelchair. And one that I didn't mention yet is have too much glare. So if it's out in the sun and the angle isn't great and there's no shade, someone, at any height, may find it to be difficult to view the screen, if they're able to see. And if they are in a wheelchair, it makes it even more difficult because the glare could be at a different angle than what might be considered. So considering some of those things in the built environment. So the built environment, the kiosk is not accessible. You know this. What's your solution? How do you retrofit for that? Well, you can write up instructions if your kiosk is being deployed by a third party. And those instructions can include proper placement for the kiosk. Where should it be? What are their parameters? What are the criteria? You can move those kiosk to a more accessible location, a more appropriate location, one where people won't have difficulty locating them and accessing them. Consider approaching the approach of the kiosk and the area surrounding the kiosk when you're placing it in the first place, but also when you're building it. And in addition, when this is a project, when you're designing your stores, when you're designing the building that it's going to be in, you're doing a redesign of the decor, include that kind of thought process. Where are you going to put some of these devices? And then identify a new and preferred location for the kiosk or move any obstructions that are around the kiosk. And again, from a retrofit perspective, yes, it's easier, and this is going to be a theme that you hear throughout the entire presentation. It is easier to think about these things before you deploy the kiosk than after. However, some of these are not that difficult to change if it makes a difference between being accessible and not being accessible. And so I would say this is sort of a low-hanging fruit, from an accessibility standpoint. Your ability to relocate the kiosk may actually be a less costly and less difficult task than you would anticipate some of the other tasks that you'll see, as we go through, or as you'll hear about as we go through the slides.

- So hardware requirements. Now we're talking about the actual kiosk, the different components that are on it. And then how does that come into play? So couple of different things, again, that we're trying to bring to everyone's attention is, as Laura mentioned, you have placement of where you're gonna put it and the surrounding areas, but now you have your kiosk enclosure that's got your different components on it. And so height and reach, what is the overall height of it? When someone in a wheelchair rolls up to it, what's their approach at it? Is it gonna be forward facing, will it be side reach? What's the clearance for that? Is the kiosk, does it have a shelf that maybe their knees might be able to come under that? What kind of operable parts are on that kiosk that they need to use? Is there a payment device? Is there a keyboard? Are they going to be, you know, a web camera because their picture needs to be taken for something? And then the displays, as Laura mentioned, something that happens a lot is you have an atrium area that you're gonna be putting your kiosk in, and it's got a lot of great natural light. Maybe it has a lot of the morning sun or late afternoon sun. But on that kiosk, because it's an indoor monitor, it's gonna have glare issues and, again, it can be blanked out. So the position of north to south or east to west on that kiosk really comes into play. And then labels, what kind of braille type labels would you be putting on the kiosk? So all around. So the hardware, again is more than just that kiosk enclosure, it's all in all that comes together. So in talking about the accessibility consideration for that, we're looking at, and this is, we really feel, this is a really good intuitive graphic here that shows the front-facing approach to something on how far is the reach. What's the height of a type of shelf that might be there? And again, your area, your building that you're gonna be putting it in, whether it's a government building. Are you US based? Are you Canadian based? The regulations are gonna change a little bit. So make sure you work with your building managers to find out what the requirements are within the city, within the county, within the government. These are all different things that you wanna make sure that we're considering here. So now, you look at your kiosk, whether, again, they're existing in deployed, or they're gonna be a brand new initial pilot project, but you've gone through the process here, and they're not accessible. We need to add something. We need to add some audio device. How are you gonna go about doing it? This is a kiosk enclosure. It's a metal box and everything. So how do we put that new device on there? We wanna be able to get that Storm Audio-Nav device in there. We don't need to just throw the kiosk out. It's not like you're looking at it, and you're having to rebudget for the 50 units that you have out there, "We're gonna throw 'em all out and start from scratch." That's not what we're saying here. We're saying there's ways to do it. So you can change a door. Maybe the kiosk has a front service access door that can easily come off. Can talk to your kiosk manufacturer and say, "We just need to update that so that we can add in a device." Maybe add a mounting bracket for the device. So off the side of the kiosk, or attached to a keyboard tray here, like this image is showing is it's got the keyboard, and then that Storm Audio-Nav device has been added in there. So taking that existing keyboard and just having a new keyboard shelf put in. So think that there's ways that how can we add it to it. But keep in mind that that adding a device could change your UL registration. So maybe the kiosks you have carry a UL registration on it, maybe they don't. But if they do, double check with your manufacturer to see if you're gonna add that device, what do you need to do to update that registration on there. And future--

- Traci? I just wanna add, I think we'll get back to the addition of the external devices and things like that in a moment. So she she's just showing you the hardware pieces as it directly to relate specifically to the hardware. We'll talk about those added peripheral devices in a moment.

- Perfect. Future proofing, it's a big word that we use a lot when we're talking about hardware and software. I mean, keep in mind that we have hardware and you have software to it. So you have your plan here of your kiosk deployment, where you're gonna place it, what the hardware's gonna be, how the software is gonna act, but you're gonna actually do that in phases. So in phase one, you're gonna have the kiosk out there and you're gonna have two options of the software turned on. In phase two, which might be six, eight months down the road, you're gonna go to the next phase. And now maybe you're gonna add payment device or another option that the kiosk can do. It might start out is it's a way-finding kiosk that then you're gonna add payment and check into. So when you're initially thinking about your kiosk, how do you go about future proofing that? In this image here, you can see this top image, we've got a lot of different payment devices on here. And then you've got this arrow here that looks white, that it looks like it's part of the graphic. Actually, what this is is it's a blank plate. So this is already cut out for the device. They know what device they're gonna be putting in there, but again, it's not gonna be until phase two. So they're putting a blank plate there. So the image down below here, now you see that the device is in there. So this is a great way when you're putting your deployment plans together, work with your manufacturer, work with your software partners on trying to get this laid out so you're able to just quickly add a device down the road. Third-party accessibility. Talk, do a review while you're going through this. If you're starting the project, do it in the very beginning. Talk with third party and go through, and the production and finalizing the designs to make sure you have that. Talk to your deployers with the clear guidelines. What are your regulations and your accessibility guidelines that you need to comply with, and make sure that you're talking with your third parties on that. And then JAWS, keep in mind that our JAWS Kiosk software, it changes dynamically with your content. So as you're starting phase one, and you're only gonna maybe be doing the way-finding side of this, when you go to get into the payment side of adding that into the kiosk platform, JAWS can actually change with you. So the more you can be transparent and tell your partners up front, the better your project is gonna be. Braille labels. Braille labels are awesome addition to this, very good and easy to do. There's plenty of printing companies out there that will help. And so something super easy as the raised numbers, you have the braille that goes below those. And these can be little stickers that can be added throughout the kiosk. So maybe next to the payment device, calling out what it is. Again, super easy to do after the fact, if you need to.

- So quickly getting back to what Traci started to talk about there, she mentioned the braille labels. I just wanna add some, and she also mentioned third-party accessibility reviews. So something that we do is conduct those third-party accessibility reviews through two TPGi services. And so within those reviews, we review against the requirements on those requirements. Braille is a requirement, but what we're showing here is that that requirement is easy to meet. It's typically not that difficult to find a location that is within the right, that is sort of within the proximity of whatever the part is that you need to label. But labels, braille labels do are a requirement for these devices. In addition, when we're talking about kiosk hardware, when we're talking about kiosk accessibility, what most people think of is the hardware. And Traci, I did have a question for you before we move on from the hardware, which is, do those retrofits require, or which retrofits require bringing the kiosks out of the field? Do all of them require that, or can those panels be replaced, sort of swapped out in the field?

- That's a great question, because depending on, and there's multiple manufacturers out there, multiple sizes and shapes to the different kiosks out there. So looking at your design, if it's replacing a door, odds are, they're gonna be able to make the door, ship the door to you, and then you can have it replaced on site. You might need to take it out of the lobby to do that, but it's not that you're gonna have to take the kiosk and ship it back to the manufacturer. If they're gonna be cutting a hole in it, that's a little bit different of a story. But for the most part, if you're either future proofing where you're putting blank plates in, or you're gonna be adding, changing out a keyboard tray or something, you should be able to do that onsite with tech support options that they have that can send somebody out to help you do that.

- And the bigger problems that you'll find when you do a kiosk hardware review are things like the height, and that's where it gets into, there are some problems that can't be solved, that you just can't fix. And that cannot be made accessible in the field, at least, and require some new manufacturing. However, some problems can be solved with software, and that's where we're hitting next. So we talked about the hardware, we talked about what makes those pieces accessible. The software is a critical component, and making sure that your software supports a screen reader and is WCAG compliant is important. But that is something that is not that difficult to retrofit because your software can be updated while in the field. And so just updating the software itself remotely and then pushing out an update tends not to be extremely cost prohibitive. Obviously, if the software needs to be rewritten, or there are costs that go along with the development, those are just costs that you'll have to consider. But from a deployment standpoint, you're not pulling them all out of the field in order to do those software updates. So when you look at software, you're looking at a usable design and potentially conducting usability testing. You want to design for the blind, for the low-vision community, for people in wheelchairs or with mobility issues. You want to determine if the user can accomplish the original task and perform the same functions as anyone and as the kiosk intends. Can they perform the critical tasks on the kiosk and is an equal or comparable experience? Does it take 10 minutes if you're blind but two minutes if you're not? So trying to create an experience that's similarly timed and similarly enjoyable so that people aren't frustrated at the end of the experience. And then, again, is the task completion time comparable. So those are some of the things to consider when looking at your software. If your software does not currently work with a screen reader and is not currently accessible, again, you can speak to a developer. You can speak to us, TPGi can do a review and help make that accessible. But you can, the main critical factor there is that you need to add a screen reader. You need to make the kiosk talk. If you can't make the kiosk talk, someone who's blind cannot use it. And so adding a screen reader such as the JAWS Kiosk screen reader is, and making sure that your software can be read by the screen reader is sort of a critical factor and time period. And again, that can be done remotely. None of that has to be, if you have the capability to push updates to your kiosks, none of that is sort of a deal breaker, has to come out of the field. So you can request a third-party software review. You can conduct usability testing with disabled users and then redesign and modify the application to meet guidelines. Now, we talked about hardware, and then I said, "There are ways that you can kind of use software to help solve some of those problems." Think about the screen height, for instance. If the height of the screen is above the 48 inches of unobstructed, that is sort of the limit for how tall the operable parts can be, then maybe if you can create, put your screen into an accessibility mode, it'll drop the navigation down. Or when you design the screen itself, just design the navigation so that much of it is on the lower half of the screen. Suddenly, wheelchair users are now able to use that same application, that same interaction, that same inaccessible screen from a hardware perspective. And without having had to remove it from the field, you've now modified it so that they're able to reach the touchscreen buttons that they need to in order to navigate. And that's one way to sort of offset some of the height, the things that I said are, well, they're technically unfixable in the field. You're not gonna cut off the bottom of the kiosk and leave it there. So if you can actually just modify the software enough so that the navigation buttons are down below, the critical height reach, that can be one way to solve for retrofit. Alternate solutions, for instance, exploring low-cost solutions during transitions. So if you can add the JAWS screen reader, for instance, to the kiosk and at use the welcome message to convey some of the critical things that you need to, while in transition, that's one useful way to sort of stopgap till you get to full accessibility. And then another is, instead of completely redesigning your software, you can also use JAWS scripting. And JAWS scripting is basically just telling JAWS how to read the application. And so that's an option as well, and we can help with that so that you don't actually have to modify the application substantially. So those are some of the ways that you can retrofit software to accommodate both hardware difficulties and software difficulties in the screen reader accessibility. One of the things that Traci talked about under hardware was talking about these accessibility devices, right? The tactile input device. And on this screen here, we have assistive technology showing the McDonald's kiosk that has a Storm Audio-Nav. And that includes a headphone jack, for instance. And so being able to add that device after the fact, if you don't have it as part of your initial design, allows you to then use headphones to activate JAWS, the screen reader. And so if you need to make your kiosks talk, which you do in order to, in order to make them accessible for someone who is blind or who has low vision, then you need a speaker, or you need some way to activate the screen reader, because you don't want the screen reader to be on for everyone. You just want it to be on for the people who need it. And so using this Audio-Nav, for instance, that has a headphones jack, you insert the headphones, it turns on the screen reader. If you have a speaker already in your kiosk, there are ways to activate JAWS without an external input device. However, an input device such as this is part of the requirement of some of the standards that are out there. And so trying to, the best solution is trying to find a way to add something like this to the device. An alternate would be using speakers. And again, now this depends on the industry that you're in, if you're in finance healthcare, anything like that, you don't want the screen reader to be reading loudly what medication you're picking up or what, how much money you're putting in the bank we're taking out. So speakers can be a privacy issue as well. So using something that has a headphone jack, that has the tactile input is a critical sort of retrofit. It's one of the things that, I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but it's one of the things that if you're doing a retrofit, you significantly, like most retrofits, this is what they're retrofitting for, due to settlements and things like that. And so that's what Traci was talking about when she was talking about those external devices. So a little bit about JAWS and the screen reader. It is completely customizable, and it's a slimmed-down version of JAWS. It's available in 30 languages. So if your software supports them, if your application has multiple languages available, the screen reader can then read those languages. The headphones, especially one that has a switch on it, like the Storm device, it can start and stop the software. So basically it'll activate and deactivate it when you insert and take out those headphones. The settings always reset between users. So every time those headphones are removed, it goes back to the default settings. So if someone has the speech speed up super high, which we all know folks who like to have their screen reader speed at like Mach-10, if that's the case, then I can't understand that. So if I were trying to use that screen reader, I would be useless. And so making sure that it resets in between so that everyone can understand what's being output and they can adjust the speed themselves is pretty important. It's also a fully functional and configurable text-to-speech capability. So you can really customize it to the way you want. You can actually, again, use JAWS scripting to overcome weaknesses in the software system itself. And yeah, go ahead. And then, so I did talk about some of those features, speed, volume, verbosity level. Those are all things that you might wanna adjust yourself. And then, let's see. Yep. Okay. So improving usability and accessibility. We've talked about the standards, and that's the baseline, the standards as we've read them. But really what we wanna focus on is usability, because you could have a fully-accessible kiosk, according to standards, quote-unquote standards, but it might not be very usable. And so we really want to focus on the user experience, and improving the user experience for people with disabilities improves the user experience for everyone. So looking at speeding up the user flow for everyone, not just people with disabilities, providing the screen reader solution that is actually going to give people the experience they expect as screen reader users know. Being able to interrupt the speech is important. If I know you're gonna say fries, I don't need you to say fries every time. And actually that's a terrible example, 'cause it's only one syllable. But if it were something multi syllable, syllabalic? You would wanna be able to skip through and interrupt it and not listen to it every time. Like, I don't care about those first 10 options. I know I want the 11th one. I wanna be able to skip. Customizable dictionary, so that basically, if there's a word from a branding perspective that your brand says differently, being able to customize the dictionary so that it says that word differently every time is important. And again, multilingual.

- Hey Laura, we have a quick question here. "Can Bluetooth headphones ever be used?"

- So that's a great question. And the answer to that is, yeah, I'm sure they can. But there are a couple of constraints right now, and one is the standards require the 3.5 millimeter headphone jack, at base. The second is security and privacy, making sure that if Bluetooth does connect and activate the screener, that it's the person's Bluetooth who intends to be, who's actually using the kiosks, not the one standing behind them. And then the last thing is you can actually use Bluetooth now. They have an adapter. It's an eight-inch adapter. Or eight inch, yeah, it's like an $8 adapter, and they have 'em all over the place. It's a 3.5 millimeter headphones jack that you insert, and that Bluetooth, that's connected to your headphones. And so when you insert it, you have it connected to your headphones. So you would carry that around in addition to your headphones, if you wanted to be able to use the existing 3.5 millimeter headphone jack on a kiosk, and that would still activate the screen reader. So yes, you can use Bluetooth. Typically, currently you need the adapter. Will they eventually change it so that you can use Bluetooth on your kiosk? I'm sure they will, but that is not the standard at the moment, that is not the expectation. And there are probably some serious privacy reasons for not doing it at the moment.

- Perfect. Thank you.

- Mm-hm. So what's an example of someone who's done this, and done this, whether by hook or by crook, voluntarily or by or not? Who has done this? Well on the screen, there is a picture of a Redbox kiosk. It has a number pad with blue, yellow, red, and green buttons on the right. That is an example of a retrofit. I do not know, and I'm sure someone that is listening can probably tell if those had to come out of the field in order to be retrofit. However, I would guess that they probably did, because I'm guessing that that did not have a panel there for easy addition of that device and had to be drilled into it. But that said, it could have been done out in the field. That is done after, like, that kind of addition. And so it can look seamless on the kiosk. Like, that does not look like an afterthought, right? It actually blends fairly well with the kiosk itself. And that was done as a result of a settlement that Redbox had, and the information on that is at a link that we can share in our chat.

- Yes. Perfect. And this link has a few other notable projects, not just on this Redbox-looking one, that are in there that talks about what, why they had to do it, what they had to go through. So that is a great link. Oops. Oh, went too far.

- All right. And I am pasting link here.

- Perfect. Thank you.

- And I did see that one of our team members, Lee has added a note about cognitive disabilities, and that's a very good point. Cognitive disabilities are extremely, are something that often we forget and happens when we're designing software as well, that trying to make sure that we're accommodating people with various disabilities, including cognitive, is important. So in addition to the speakers being problematic for people from a cognitive standpoint, it's also problematic if you're, when we were talking about speakers instead of headphones, if you're in an Amtraks train station, for instance, or you're under a subway, or you're anywhere that is in an airport with lots of people, having things being broadcast on speaker, even if it's not a privacy issue, could just be difficult, provide difficulty, or prove difficulty to hear. And so those are other reasons why speakers aren't great. And I think that there's another comment as well that someone made to, that's privately, that I think is worth stating, which is conversational voice. So making sure that we're-- One of the things that we talked about with the JAWS screen reader is actually the different customizations. You can customize the voice that's used. Instead of using a more robotic voice, you can use one that's less robotic. I think someone uses the word conversational voice. That's a little bit different. But in general, making sure that you're using things that you're customizing the experience to be enjoyable. And then Traci has moved on to the services offerings page. And this is important only because you've been so fascinated by this webinar, and you've learned so much that you need more. If you do have a kiosk deployment that you're working on now or a retrofit that you're thinking about, we can help. We have kiosk hardware accessibility reviews. We can do reviews of your software. We can work with you to get JAWS installed and working on your kiosks already deployed with or without out external devices, depending on how, basically we need a headphone jack or some sort of speaker, at minimum. So there are various levels of what's optimal and what's not, and Audio-Nav is great. And that's something that can be added with a bracket after the fact. And I think, Traci, did we miss a page that had the side bracket one? The one that was sort of like the after? It was on the, I think maybe we redid some of the images.

- Oh yeah. When we redid the one it came out.

- So one of the things, if you think about tablets, for instance, a lot of times tablets are monitors, basically, their touchscreens. They don't really have much kiosk around the side. You can add a bracket to the side of that pretty easily, and that bracket can mount the Storm Audio-Nav, and it's pretty, or an easy access pad or any other accessible assistive technology device. And that's pretty, it looks pretty good, and it's pretty easy. It's just a bracket that you amount on the side. As long as there's access to a USB port, for the most part, that's totally doable. And that alone with the JAWS screen reader, those together can really get you a good portion of the way to an accessible kiosk deployment. And so we can help with looking at those and finding what those solutions are. The screen reader and tactile device integration, we can help with that. Do a full solution accessibility review. And my personal favorite is usability research, actually watching people, observing people as they interact with these kiosks themselves. And if you're not doing that with both sighted, disabled and all users, I mean, that's critical because you can find some really great stuff, and it's much better to do that early than to do it later. And Traci, I'm sure you have some stories of-- Oh yeah.

- What's the whole idea about kiosk deployments? The first one's never, it's never right the first time. I mean, no matter how good you are and how many times you, or how many reviews you've done, until you actually have it out in the field and you've done tons of testing on it, and you've actually seen how it works or observed how it works, you're gonna find something that needs to be updated. And so let us help you avoid some of those things.

- And that's a common question, a common call that we get is, "Hey, we deployed the pilot project of the 10 or the 25 units. And then we realized we have a lighting issue because it's in the atrium. Or we didn't think that we needed to add this type of device to it. What do we do now?" That's okay. It's not that difficult to retrofit the hardware, depending on what you have and what you're looking to add. So don't feel like, oh, everything is, well, they're already out there and I'm just gonna keep moving forward. We'll plan for the next rollouts to have everything in there as they're going but doing the retrofits. But there are plenty of projects that, once you deploy them, maybe something got missed. And keep in mind that when you are doing your pilot project, you're doing it in, in your office, in your warehouse, in the testing lab. And like Laura said, until you actually have users out there doing it, using them, you're seeing how the application flow is going and everything, that's what's critical to this. So try to get some out right away and watch how they're being used. And have your staff taking notes, being the ambassadors to the project, standing behind them, asking questions, follow-up questions afterwards. How did it work out for you? That is critical to making the project successful.

- And to Traci's point, a retrofit is totally possible if you've already been out there in the field and a retrofit is needed. However, I would add, if you have not yet deployed, it is much less expensive and much less of a headache to actually make it accessible from the beginning and do an accessibility review before you actually go to deployment. Have us review the hardware, do a test, provide you with feedback so that you know at what point you're starting. Nobody's saying that you have to do all or nothing, but at the same time, knowing what is and is not accessible, from the beginning, will save you a lot of headaches later. And it's much better to be proactive than to be forced to make them accessible later. And, again, we're happy to help with the retrofit. And we understand that there is a good-better-best scenario in some of those situations. And when it's necessary to do that, we're absolutely, we'd rather see it done than not done. But if you can do it from the beginning, if you're working on a new deployment, consider accessibility from the start.

- 'Cause if you're on our webinar, you're thinking about it. So the ball's already started. For some reason, you're here thinking about it. So talk to us about the review. Get it going now, no matter what phase of your project that you're in. Whether you're in the beginning or you're fully deployed, they're all out there, you're not putting anymore out there, there's a reason that you're sitting here listening to us and we super appreciate it. But definitely give us a call. So with that, there's our contact information. Thank you everyone for jumping on and registering for this presentation from Laura and I, and we're here to help, however we can.

- Thank you so much.

- [Traci] Thanks everyone.