Intro: Welcome to TPGI's Real People, Real Stories podcast where you'll find interesting and diverse stories from folks working to make the world a more inclusive place. Mark Miller: Hey. Welcome to the Real People, Real Stories podcast, brought to you by TPGI. I am your host, Mark Miller, thanking you for helping us keep it accessible. Do us a favor: if you're enjoying the Real People, Real Stories podcast, share it. Tell someone about it. Hey, even link to it from your accessible website. Mark Miller: So thank you all for listening. Thank you for being here. I've got a super cool guest today that I'm particularly excited about because he does something that I really love. Our guest is Anthony Ferraro. I hope I pronounced that correctly, Anthony, and Anthony is a Paralympic judo champion, I guess is the most succinct way to say it. We were talking a little bit before the show, Anthony, and I have a pretty extensive martial arts background, so being on a call with a judo champion is just like, this isn't even work for me. This is just nothing but fun. Mark Miller: So, can you start off by telling me, how did you get interested in martial arts and judo in the first place? Where did this path start that led you to be a judo champion, and please talk about the particular challenges that you have as an individual that maybe the rest of us don't. Anthony Ferraro: Absolutely. First of all, thanks for having me on the podcast, Mark. I need to stop you first: I would not call myself a judo champion. Definitely a competitor- Mark Miller: All right. Anthony Ferraro: I work as hard as I can. I've won the nationals a few times for judo. I'm on Team USA training for the Paralympics. It's a lot of fun. Anthony Ferraro: I got into judo when, I was a wrestler through high school. I did pretty well for myself. I had a few championships and stuff, and my older brother decided actually, I was born blind so I was the only blind wrestler in my high school and in high school wrestling at the time. There was an adaptive rule where it was two-hand start, two-hand contact always. You had to have constant contact when you're a wrestler, and if you broke apart, the referee would blow the whistle and bring us back. So, I kind of ... Once I started doing well for myself, I was terrible when I started and then I started training super hard, and just really getting pretty good at the sport. Once I started doing well, people started complaining about the two-hand start. I started running into this adversity of people saying I had an unfair advantage or even saying I was faking my blindness to get this unfair advantage, and it was crazy. Anthony Ferraro: My older brother Oliver, he was a great wrestler and he saw what I dealt with and was really inspired by it, and thought it was a great story to share. He was into film; he was a big film major, and he did film producing all independently and stuff, and he made a two-minute video about me talking about what it was like to be a blind wrestler dealing with adversity growing up, you know, different things. It was just a two-minute clip, and he said, "This is my little brother. If you're a camera operator, film producer, whatever, I want to make a film about him but I don't have all the resources, so please reach out." This was after I won a championship my junior year of wrestling in high school, and someone reached out to him saying, "This is amazing. We need to sit down about this," and it was this guy, Chris Suchorsky, who's another independent producer. He's produced a few films by himself. Anthony Ferraro: They decided to link up together and make a full feature-length documentary of my senior year. You know, follow me around and- Mark Miller: Wow. Anthony Ferraro: What it was like dealing with all these things. Long story short, the trailer got posted on Kickstarter to raise money in 2015, and it got millions of views by social media platforms and stuff, and one of those views, I'm sitting at home and ... It's like 2017, actually, at this point. I get a phone call. I'm like, "Hello?", and they're like, "Is this Anthony Ferraro? It's the United States Paralympic Committee"- Mark Miller: Oh. [crosstalk 00:04:40]. Anthony Ferraro: I'm like, "Sorry, I think you have the wrong number." Mark Miller: How cool. Anthony Ferraro: It was insane. They were like, "We saw your film and we were wondering if you would consider training judo for the Paralympics. The only disability in the Paralympic judo is visual impairment, and it's the closest thing to wrestling that's in the Paralympics right now, and we think you'd be a great fit." I just jumped on it right away, and that's how I got into judo five years ago. Mark Miller: So how do you feel ... This all makes sense to me, right? As a martial artist myself, having done a lot of it, some judo and jiu jitsu, and also having a colleague of me that was a Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt, like I completely get that when you're blind, once you make contact, you're really using that tactile sensitivity. You can feel and understand what your opponent's doing, to the point where I close my eyes a lot when I train to try and take away that visual bias that might be throwing me of. Mark Miller: How do you feel, like how was the transition from wrestling, like a traditional collegiate-type wrestling, to judo for you? Was that a difficult transition, or based on the experience you had with wrestling, was it a natural slide from one thing to the other? Anthony Ferraro: Right. Well, so I was really lucky because I also trained in Greco-Roman and freestyle wrestling. Mark Miller: Ah. Anthony Ferraro: So Greco-Roman was a huge help in transitioning to judo, but the big difference is like, I call it "wrestling with a jacket on" [crosstalk 00:06:20]- Mark Miller: Yes. Anthony Ferraro: You know? You have the whole gi on and everything, and for those of you who don't know what a gi is, it's like the karate-type outfit with the belt and everything. It was like, the main difference is learning arm bars, chokes, and getting used to being comfortable on my back for periods of time. I remember the first day of practice is, the first thing they taught you is you learn how to fall correctly, and I was like, "Oh man. I'm not used to this." Real baby steps, and then got into it and it was just, I really fell in love with it. I almost bring a real ... Some people hate it, but it's really good for competing because for judo, I'm a competitor. For jiu jitsu, I do for the love of the sport and it's really like a therapy, and it also helps with judo, but judo, I bring a wrestling aspect to judo. Anthony Ferraro: Judo, there's these two guys out there, they're very zen and stuff, and they'll just throw you. I'm like a bull, like constantly going and keep that wrestling mindset in judo, and I think it really helps because I have such a disadvantage of, not the amount of years as all these other people that I kind of have to play catch-up. My coach and I joked that I've put like 12 years of judo into like four years. Mark Miller: That's funny. Well, I think it also can help too just in the fact that you're throwing something different at these more experienced judo players than what they're used to. If you were playing closer to their game, then their experience would definitely be able to rise above you, but when you're coming at it from a little bit different of an angle, you're challenging them too, right? You're causing them to do something a little bit different- Anthony Ferraro: No, exactly, because they're used to like a slick, if I tried to be a judoka against judo people, I'd get- Mark Miller: Yeah. Anthony Ferraro: It's not even fair. I have to do what I can and be aggressive and more physical. Mark Miller: Yeah. The gi is an interesting thing that you bring up because I think that a lot of people struggle with that. I don't know how you feel about it now, but I think the gi, in jiu jitsu especially, but it sort of slows the game down a little bit, right, when you're all slick and shirtless and you have a singlet on in wrestling, it's very fast, but when you have a gi on, it kind of slows things down a little bit, but it's very, very different. I can remember a scene in one of these shows on TV where Gary Busey grabbed Rhonda Rousey. It was one of these reality kind of shows, and they were by a swimming pool and they were doing some challenge or something. Rhonda Rousey just had a jacket on, like a windbreaker on, and she did that judo move where you duck your head down and flip your hands over and kind of roll your shoulders so that her windbreaker just came right off, right? Which- Anthony Ferraro: Oh yeah. Mark Miller: When you get in trouble in judo and somebody's got a hold of your gi, you pop your way right out of it. I'm like, "What are you doing, Gary Busey, grabbing Rhonda Rousey like that and trying to throw her in a pool?" She's- Anthony Ferraro: Exactly. Mark Miller: That's the wrong person to do that with, but it just showed her understanding of the gi. Mark Miller: The other thing that I think is interesting about that that I think must be an advantage for you is that that is all tactile. That's not a visual thing that Rhonda saw that. She felt what was happening to her and reacted, and I wonder if you think that you do, in some ways, have an advantage because you're not even distracted by that element of sight. You can commit yourself so wholly to that tactile sensitivity and feeling what your opponent is doing. Anthony Ferraro: Absolutely. I wouldn't call it so much as an "advantage" as more of like balances out the playing field in that sense. It's like, that's your eyes, because being able to see some things definitely would help, like in a perfect world, that would be great. When I was in wrestling, my coach worked with me so much to where I was able to feel if the person was tensing up their muscles to change their level, so I would get ready for things like that. With judo, I rely so much on my grip strength anyway that it's really helpful, and I really like being able to grab onto the gi. It definitely can slow it down, but there's ways, if you want to, to keep it going fast. You can really throw people off. Anthony Ferraro: So I like it. It's like a game of chess, too. Sometimes you have to wait. It's very strategic, especially jiu jitsu. Mark Miller: So is jiu jitsu kind of a new passion for you? Do you think you'll start moving, and do me a favor when you answer this question also: just explain to the listeners the difference between judo and jiu jitsu. You and I know it really well, but not everybody out there understands the difference, but I'm curious. Do you think that you have a future with jiu jitsu as well, or is that just something you're going to continue to do for the love of it? Anthony Ferraro: You know, it's funny. I have thought about "see where it takes me." I'm definitely training towards the 2024 Paralympics in Paris, so that's going to be my next focus for the next two-and-a-half years, but- Mark Miller: And that's judo. Anthony Ferraro: That's judo. I definitely want to continue jiu jitsu and I think it's something I'll probably take seriously, like take to the next level as much as I can after the Olympics in Paris and see if I can make something happen, but continue training. I love it so much. I walk out of jiu jitsu, like judo, it's a lot of mental stuff and pressure because it's all the Olympic and super competitive and all that stuff. jiu jitsu, I walk out feeling like it was a therapy. I feel like I just went to yoga, you know? Mark Miller: Yeah, yeah. Anthony Ferraro: I feel refreshed, and I can almost stay in the gym and jiu jitsu all day, and just have a good time. Judo, you're getting slammed. It's hard on the body. Anthony Ferraro: So the difference between judo and jiu jitsu, the main difference, is judo, it's a lot more on your feet. There's a lot more throws. So if you throw someone from their feet to their back cleanly, it's called an "ippon," which is a full point, and the match is over. In judo, you can also pin someone, and there's chokes and arm bars as well. In jiu jitsu, there's a lot on the mat, so it's a longer, slower game. In judo, if nothing happens in 10 seconds when you're on the ground, they'll pull you back up basically. In jiu jitsu, you can hang on the mat and wait and make something happen on the ground. It's way more methodical, in my opinion, and it can be a lot slower. Mark Miller: I mean they're both, to me, very much like a chess match. People looking from the outside might really see the physical aspects of it that you're talking about, but I agree with you that both are like a chess match, and jiu jitsu's just a really long chess match- Anthony Ferraro: Yeah. Mark Miller: Where you're on the ground. The idea is to get to the ground, or can be to get to the ground, but once you get there, it's just another place that you're competing. That doesn't end until a submission, or it depends on the rules, right? There's points there as well. Anthony Ferraro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mark Miller: But it just goes and goes, and I agree with you. I've done mild competing in jiu jitsu, but mostly it's something I showed up to several times a week to feel good. Anthony Ferraro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mark Miller: You know, just to- Anthony Ferraro: Absolutely. I think- Mark Miller: So that therapy, I completely feel you there. Anthony Ferraro: I think physical activity, like exercise in any form, is the biggest antidepressant prescription you can possibly get- Mark Miller: [crosstalk 00:14:29] completely agree with you. I also think that getting on the mat with you and having you throw me around and lock me up a little bit would be great therapy, for me. Anthony Ferraro: Oh man. That would be good. Mark Miller: I'm sure you feel this way, but any time you have the chance to work with somebody that's really good, that is better than you, it's almost like a privilege, right? Anthony Ferraro: Oh. I remember in high school, like high school, to this day now, I constantly search for the people that would beat me up because if you're not losing, you're not learning, right? You can't constantly find the person that you can bully around, you know? That's not the nature of the sport; if there's someone that's lower than you in belt or not as good as you, whatever. It's your job to help teach them while you roll around with them. Mark Miller: Yeah, yeah. I can tell right away when you made your comments on my opening statement of you being a champion that you had that humility that really comes with somebody who's deeply committed to the martial arts, and I think the way that you just phrased that is a lot about it. You're here to help people that aren't as good as you, and you're there to seek out people better than you because that's how you grow and learn- Anthony Ferraro: Right, because I never would've gotten to where I am in any way if it wasn't for other people. You can't do anything alone, and it's our job to give back as much as we can and to continue to take from the people that can give to us and then continue to give back. It's like- Mark Miller: Yeah. It's like- Anthony Ferraro: An ongoing cycle. Mark Miller: A passing down. "I was privileged enough to have this given to me, and now I'm going to share it with you." Anthony Ferraro: Exactly. Like, "Check out this awesome trick I learned. I'm not going to keep this from you." Mark Miller: Well- Anthony Ferraro: It's like, "I'll do it to you a couple times and then I'll show you what I'm doing." Mark Miller: Yeah, and then when those people get better, now you're learning from them. Anthony Ferraro: [crosstalk 00:16:17]. Mark Miller: So I have a weird question for you from the perspective of somebody who is sighted that does very similar training to what you do, and thinking about your total focus on the tactile aspect of it. Mark Miller: When you are passing along your advice or you're helping out somebody you're training with, a partner, that's sighted, is there insight that you can give them as a person who's blind and does really rely on that tactile-ness that they may not really discover themselves or that's a real revelation to them because they're sighted? Is there anything that you've said to them and they've gone, "Man, I never would've thought of that," or, "I can't feel it that way?" Is there a difference there? Anthony Ferraro: I don't know. I wouldn't say I'm some ... I have crazy things or anything, but I think in some ways, sometimes I make people think differently with where to put the pressure, like, "This isn't feeling right." I learn so much from everyone else, too. I'll roll around with white belts and be like, "Yo, show me how you did that. That was perfect." Mark Miller: Yeah, yeah. Anthony Ferraro: People think you can only learn from someone above you, but you can learn from so many people. Mark Miller: Yeah, I agree with that. When those white belts show up and they go, "Oh, you got stuck with me," and I say, "No, you don't understand. I know you feel like you're learning a lot from me, but you don't get how much I'm learning from you through having to explain to you what I know, like just that process of having to take what I know and explain it in a way that you understand helps me understand it better, and then seeing maybe the ways that you struggle or the ways that you handle something differently," like you said, sometimes just in their innocence, they come up with something new and you go, "Wait a minute. What did you just do? That's really cool." Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, exactly. Mark Miller: Or you see them struggle in a certain way and you think, "I never thought somebody would have a difficulty with it that way," and then you have to figure out how to help them, and it just expands your understanding every time you do that. I completely agree. Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, and the cool thing about jiu jitsu, and I'd say all martial arts, it teaches you how to stop and think like, "How do I get out of this situation? How do I make this situation better?", and it translates to life, you know? Mark Miller: Yeah. That's a fantastic point, and I think that ... When I think about the jiu jitsu and being in a difficult situation and learning how to mitigate that situation, like, "I may not be able to get out of this right now, but I can do something to not make it worse, and I can stay here for a while until I find that little chink in the armor I need to make it better." Anthony Ferraro: Exactly. Mark Miller: You're right, man. That's just life. It's a little metaphor. You're getting on the mat every day and doing this little metaphor for life. Yeah. Mark Miller: So, when I think about you, and like I said, I actually have a friend, what's your rank, by the way, Anthony, in Brazilian jiu jitsu? Anthony Ferraro: I'm a blue belt. Mark Miller: You're a blue belt, okay. So this friend of mine who's competitive is a totally blind Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt. I hope the two of you meet someday because I'm sure- Anthony Ferraro: Oh, that's incredible. Mark Miller: Yeah. His name's Larry Lewis and he's inspiration ... just to begin with as a human being, but- Anthony Ferraro: Where is he from? Mark Miller: Where is he from? Anthony Ferraro: Do you know? Mark Miller: He's out in the Midwest. Anthony Ferraro: Oh, nice. Mark Miller: I can't remember exactly where he lives now. Why? What area are you in? Anthony Ferraro: I'm in Jersey, but I travel a lot. Mark Miller: Yeah. I mean I can actually pass your name over to him if you want- Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, please. I'll look him up to. Mark Miller: Yeah. He's always interested in getting together with people when they're in town and he'll seek out dojos and stuff, which I think is the wonderful thing about this community. I'm sure you do the same thing. When you're traveling, you look for places to go train because- Anthony Ferraro: Absolutely, and everyone welcomes you with open arms. It's a family worldwide, so it's great. That's the other amazing thing about it. Mark Miller: Yeah. So you must get to travel quite a bit, then. Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, so besides the judo, it's all self-funded Olympic journeys and stuff unfortunately. I rely on sponsorships and things like that, but my fiancee and I, she works in tech so she can work from wherever. When I have tournaments in other countries, like I've been to tons of countries for judo competing and stuff, we travel there and then after my tournament, we'll go and travel around for a week or so and learn about the country, the people, and just help as much as we can do things. When COVID hit, it was like this pandemic that stopped everything. You don't have a schedule. Everything stopped, and no traveling. What's going to happen? Anthony Ferraro: So aside from martial arts, I'm also a musician. I play guitar and sing. People were arguing, you know, the election was coming up and people were just being negative online, all this stuff. We were kind of tired of it and I was playing at bars and restaurants and stuff making a decent amount of money, and I was just like, "I know this is good, but I want more. I want to be able to help any way I can in this time or leave a mark any way I can, and just promote some kind of positive thing." So we decided to come up with a 10,000 seven-week cross-country music tour that we literally just planned completely by ourselves, funded by ourselves. She drove the 10,000 miles and we went all around the country from Jersey to California and back, and set up in all these beautiful places across everywhere with beautiful scenery backdrops and stuff, like in the Redwoods of California, the Grand Canyon in Arizona. We've branded the whole thing and called it Anthony Ferraro's Line-Busting Livestream Tour. It was just an incredible experience. I just- Mark Miller: [crosstalk 00:22:47]. Anthony Ferraro: We love traveling. Both of us have a huge passion for traveling and helping others, so it was our way to give back and make people smile. It's just a great thing that happened. Mark Miller: I think everybody had to get creative last year. I know for me, I haven't been on the mat ... doing Brazilian jiu jitsu since the pandemic started. I still haven't gotten back on the mat because- Anthony Ferraro: [crosstalk 00:23:12]. Mark Miller: The place I was training ended up having to shut down. So I've got to find a new home myself. Mark Miller: You really came up with a very interesting way to manage the pandemic and just travel. Was it difficult for you to keep up with your training as well during the pandemic? Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, so there was no training for basically a year, I'd say. Did nothing, and it kind of got to me. I work out pretty regularly where I have a little setup. I have a bar and some kettle bells and dumbbells and stuff. It's in my back spot of my apartment, like outside. So I do that out there, do a lot of body weight stuff. Keeping up with that, but things- Mark Miller: [crosstalk 00:24:00]. Anthony Ferraro: Oh, sorry. What was that? Mark Miller: I said that's exactly what I did. Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, exactly- Mark Miller: No more going to the gym, no more on the mat. It's all kettle bells and whatever you can do- Anthony Ferraro: You have to be creative, though- Mark Miller: In your own backyard. Anthony Ferraro: You can't just use the close as an excuse, like you still got to just stay in shape for yourself. Anthony Ferraro: Did that, and then I got an email a few months ago that we had a tournament in Azerbaijan in a couple months and started training back up, and things opened back up in Jersey and we started training here. Started training really hard, getting really good, and then a couple weeks ago, maybe a month or so ago, and it was a couple weeks before my tournament, I actually pulled my groin really bad to where in practice I was throwing someone, and I was doing so well too; it was one of the best nights I ever looked leading up to it. I threw someone and my groin, I heard the loudest "pop." I was basically so disoriented after that. I didn't know where I was for a second, and I was just really scared. I could hardly walk for the first couple days. I couldn't do anything. Still, to this day, any time my groin flexes, it kind of- Mark Miller: You can feel it in there? Anthony Ferraro: It's this pain, yeah. I can't grapple yet and it's pretty frustrating, but- Mark Miller: That could- Anthony Ferraro: Just staying positive. Mark Miller: You know what I mean? Like not training for a while and then diving back in- Anthony Ferraro: No, absolutely, and diving back in hard. It's all [crosstalk 00:25:36] experiences. Mark Miller: So what was the throw that you did that on? Anthony Ferraro: It was a tomoe nage. Mark Miller: Oh, okay. So- Anthony Ferraro: Which is where you go to your back, you're facing your opponent, you go to your back, and you put your foot in their hip area or stomach, and you have both hands on their gi, and you throw them over you, like behind you, and they flip. Mark Miller: It's like you're doing a backwards roll- Anthony Ferraro: Exactly- Mark Miller: Carry them over the top of you- Anthony Ferraro: You're kicking the person over you. Mark Miller: Yeah, over the top of you with the foot and give them a little pop- Anthony Ferraro: And right when I pushed up, my groin popped. Mark Miller: So on that little pop that you give with your foot, that's when your groin went, huh? Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, and the worst part was I hit like five of them before that practice. Mark Miller: So were you practicing tomoe nage or were you actually hitting that in [randori 00:26:28]? Anthony Ferraro: No, I was actually hitting it in randori. I hit it a bunch of times randori and then just one time. It was the wrong motion and- Mark Miller: That's awesome. Anthony Ferraro: That's how quickly things can stop for you. Mark Miller: Yeah, yeah. [crosstalk 00:26:44]- Anthony Ferraro: It's all part of the journey. Mark Miller: Tomoe nage in randori with anybody. I mean to me, that wouldn't be a high-value throw. I wouldn't get that one a lot because I just think that it's ... Your timing has to be so on for somebody not to scuff that, so- Anthony Ferraro: No, absolutely. Mark Miller: You've just told me how really good you are. Anthony Ferraro: No. Mark Miller: Yeah- Anthony Ferraro: [crosstalk 00:27:10]. Mark Miller: That's great. That's great- Anthony Ferraro: I always tell people, too, it's not about how long you do something. It's about what you put into, like the time you do do it. It's like, I know people that go to the gym for five hours and they barely get anything done, and I know people that work out in their backyards for 40 minutes and do more than that person could ever dream of- Mark Miller: I hear you. Anthony Ferraro: For that day. Mark Miller: Yeah, I hear you. It's true. Mark Miller: Well, it's a bummer that you ... pulled your groin like that. Do you feel like you've recovered well enough to where you're going to be able to move on, it's not going to stop you? Anthony Ferraro: Well that's the thing. It's pretty much put a halt at this games, for the Tokyo. I went through a pretty dark spell for like a week probably. Was pretty upset and pretty down about it, and then just realized there's so much other stuff going on that I have to focus on and stay positive through this whole thing, and it's all part of the journey. I'm still young: I'm only 26, and next Olympics I'll be 28, so it's perfect timing. It's only my first run, which is crazy. I made it to, like at one point I was 21st in the world. I think currently I'm like 23rd or something. It's a huge bummer to be that close. It feels like in times of my life, like you want something so bad and you have these goals, and you always make it so close and then you just miss it, but it's like your goals were so extremely high that it's like, you did so good to fall short of that goal. You know what I mean? Mark Miller: It's the same attitude that causes you to be so disappointed for that period of time is the same attitude that causes you to push that hard to get to wherever it is that you make it to. The 23rd, the 21st, all those places in the first place. Anthony Ferraro: Exactly. Mark Miller: You think about that and you go like, "Oh, well you shouldn't be disappointed." You can say all that kind of stuff, but I disagree with that. I mean I- Anthony Ferraro: No, it sucks. It's like- Mark Miller: Yeah- Anthony Ferraro: [crosstalk 00:29:20], the reality of it is like, that's what I mean. People try to brush it off and, "Oh, it's fine. It'll be okay," "You'll be fine," and it's like, "Yeah, I know I'll be fine, but right now, no." Mark Miller: "Right now, it sucks." Anthony Ferraro: It just sucks, dude- Mark Miller: [crosstalk 00:29:32]. Anthony Ferraro: Do you know how much hours I put into this? How much sacrifice, how much money? All my blood, sweat, and tears, how much I've cried over this. How much I've put into this. It's like, "You'll never understand, and I don't expect you to ever understand. Unless you do it, it's like"- Mark Miller: Yeah. Anthony Ferraro: It's hard to even talk about it with some people, you know? Mark Miller: You know what? It's like, they're right, and you will get over it- Anthony Ferraro: Yeah. No, absolutely- Mark Miller: But right now, it's just awful. Like, "Give me my moment where I can just feel bad." Anthony Ferraro: "Let me be upset for a minute"- Mark Miller: "Just for a little bit"- Anthony Ferraro: Like, "This sucks"- Mark Miller: "I'll get over it, I'll start training again. There'll be another tournament, but today"- Anthony Ferraro: Exactly. Mark Miller: "This happened." Anthony Ferraro: "Today, I'm laying here and I might eat ice cream or something. I don't know," but that's okay. "Tomorrow I'm making my bed and I'm getting up." Mark Miller: Yeah, and talk about metaphors for life. Well that's what judo's all about, right? You hit that mat and you get back up, and you do it again, but you know what? I don't care how good your randori is, I mean I don't care how good your ukemi is, "ukemi" is your falling, right, for the listener? Anthony Ferraro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mark Miller: Somebody can still slam you hard on that mat, but you know what? It hurts. You get up, you go again, but when you hit the mat- Anthony Ferraro: Oh yes. Mark Miller: It's going to hurt, you know? Anthony Ferraro: Especially when you train on wrestling mats. I'll tell you, that gets hard. Mark Miller: Yeah, I bet. The hard rubber mats? Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, instead of ... Most judo dojos have nice, soft mats- Mark Miller: Yeah. Anthony Ferraro: These tatamis, they're called. Wrestling mats are a lot harder. Sometimes I have to train at a gym with wrestling mats and it can be pretty brutal, but it's one of my favorite places to train, so it's like a double-edged sword. Mark Miller: Yep. That's good. Mark Miller: Well hey, listen. It's been great talking to you. Is there anything else that you think the world should know about you, about training the way that you do and being successful, especially for somebody who's blind before we go? Anthony Ferraro: Yeah. I think, first of all, thank you for having me. It's been awesome talking to you- Mark Miller: Yeah. You too, man. Anthony Ferraro: The only thing I try to tell people is like, "The only disability's a bad attitude in life. Don't sit around and feel sorry for yourself and wish you were in a better position. The first step is to make your bed and get on with your day, and start to make a better position for yourself." Also, whatever it is, you don't have to do anything crazy, like I'm not telling everyone to go out and do grappling and stuff. Whatever you're doing in your life, just do it. Put your all into it and have fun, but work hard and good things will come. There's always going to be discouraging times. There's always scary times, there's always dark periods, but you're always going to get through them if you keep pushing and create a support team around you, and always reach out and ask for help when you need it. Anthony Ferraro: If you ever need to reach out to me, you can find all my stuff at asfvision.com, and you can always send me a message. I'll always do my absolute best to get back to you as soon as I can, and I usually do pretty quickly. Anthony Ferraro: So, thank you so much for having me, Mark. I really appreciate it. Mark Miller: You bet. I'll have you send me all that information so we'll post all those links and stuff in the show notes and everything. So- Anthony Ferraro: [crosstalk 00:33:06]- Mark Miller: Give me whatever you want people to have, if you have websites, all that stuff. We'll make sure it gets up there. Mark Miller: You said something, and I want to make sure I got this right because this needs to go on a T-shirt or something- Anthony Ferraro: Oh [crosstalk 00:33:18]- Mark Miller: But you said, "The only disability is a bad attitude? Did I capture that right?" Anthony Ferraro: Yes, absolutely- Mark Miller: Yeah. I think that's a- Anthony Ferraro: The shirts are coming soon. Mark Miller: I think that, that's right. Copyright Anthony Ferraro. I think that that's brilliant. I mean that just sums it right up. The only true disability is a bad attitude, and- Anthony Ferraro: Yeah. You know, I know people with no arms and no legs, and you would think, "Oh, that sucks for them," and it does suck. Being blind sucks. All these things suck, but they make the most of their life. I know these people that have no limbs going out and literally making ways to climb mountains and stuff, like literally climbing mountains, and it's like, I know people at home with no physical disability that are just feeling sorry for themselves and refusing to do something with their lives, or just get outside or do something. It's like, who has the disability at the end of the day, you know? Mark Miller: Did an interview with a guy that calls himself "Wheels" and he's in a wheelchair. This guy this the skate parks. Anthony Ferraro: Wait. Is his name Hot Wheels? No- Mark Miller: I don't know that I've heard him called "Hot Wheels." He just calls himself "Wheels." Anything that a skateboarder or a BMX biker would do, he does in the skate parks, and then he does these big, big mega jumps. So he's taken being in a wheelchair, just like you've ... found your sport that resonates with you, for him, being in a wheelchair enables him to do all that stuff. He does all this cool stuff and has all these videos and does these shows and all- Anthony Ferraro: Wow. That's awesome. Mark Miller: Yeah, all this stuff. So what you say is really true. It's just- Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, no. I also have a huge passion of skateboarding myself, but I grew up in a small beach town, so skateboarding and surfing I do all the time- Mark Miller: Wait, do you skateboard as a blind- Anthony Ferraro: Yeah, yeah. I skateboard and surf. I have videos up on my- Mark Miller: I got to check that out- Anthony Ferraro: TikTok and stuff like that, and Instagram- Mark Miller: So Anthony, no joke: I'm up in Exeter, New Hampshire. Anthony Ferraro: Oh, no way. Mark Miller: Yeah, so if you ever travel up this way, my son and I are big skateboarders. I'd love to hit some skate parks with you, and I'd love to bring you especially into my dojo. I teach a couple different classes, adults and teens- Anthony Ferraro: [crosstalk 00:35:45]- Mark Miller: And lots of times I blindfold the teens and make them not just do their martial arts, but also clean up and all that kind of stuff without the benefit of sight, and to have you come in and teach those guys something would be an honor for all of us. So if you're ever up [crosstalk 00:36:01]- Anthony Ferraro: Oh man. That's incredible. I would love that- Mark Miller: You got to let me know- Anthony Ferraro: And it would be an honor to skate with you and your son. Mark Miller: That would be fantastic. I'll tell you what: I know a lot of dojos around here, so we could even put a little tour for you together- Anthony Ferraro: No, that sounds great. I actually go up that way quite a bit, so we might have to make something happen- Mark Miller: All right. Anthony Ferraro: Sooner than later. I'll be in touch with you, Mark. Mark Miller: All right, definitely. I'll pop you an email, and I need to get your information anyway so that everybody can get ahold of you that wants to get ahold of you- Anthony Ferraro: Awesome. Mark Miller: And look at your videos and your ... All the stuff that you have posted. We'll get all that out for them, so- Anthony Ferraro: Sounds great. Mark Miller: Well thank you, Anthony. Absolute honor talking to you. You're an inspiration to me as a martial artist, a human bring. I really appreciate you sharing with us today, and you've got some great insight. So thank you very much- Anthony Ferraro: Thank you, Mark. Mark Miller: All right, this is Mark Miller thanking Anthony and reminding you to keep it accessible. Intro: This podcast has been brought to you by TPGI, the experts in digital accessibility. Stay tuned for more Real People, Real Stories podcasts coming soon.