Mark Miller: Welcome to TPGI's Real People, Real Stories podcast, where you'll find interesting and diverse stories from folks working to make the world a more inclusive place. Mark Miller: Hey, welcome to the Real People. Real Stories Podcast brought to you by TPGI. I am your host, Mark Miller, thanking you for helping us keep it accessible. Do us a favor, if you're enjoying the Real People, Real Stories podcast, share it, tell someone about it. Hey, even link to it from your accessible website. Mark Miller: So, welcome. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Marissa and Dara for being here. Dara is our new marketing intern. So this is her first time on the podcast, and we're glad to have you here. Welcome, welcome. Mark Miller: And to our guest, Angie Ause, which we just were talking about your last name and how cool it is and what a cool alliteration that is, thanks for being here. We're talking to Angie today because Angie, you actually... You like golf, right? You play golf. You're actually a member of both the PGA and the LPGA, which is the PGA and then the Ladies PGA. Right. But you do something very special with children with disabilities, and running camps, and helping them learn how to play golf. Is that right? Angie Ause: That's right. So in addition to that, I'm also a teacher for the blind and visually impaired at St. Paul public schools. And I guess my first career, if you could call it that, was a teaching pro. And I decided to, kind of a long story, but I had a student who was retiring from the field of being a teacher for the blind, visually impaired. And she thought that might be something I wanted to do because here in Minnesota, we don't golf year-round. So I always was looking, scratching my head in the winter. So went back to school and did a master's program, and received a teacher licensure and teacher for the blind, visually impaired. And I am so passionate about golf that, through that, I really wanted to start some kind of a program for kids with visual impairments, so they could be introduced to golf as well. That's a little backstory on that. Mark Miller: Yeah, that's fantastic. And I'm from New Hampshire, so I completely understand the seasonality of golf and where you would need to fill the gaps. And it seems like, if I think about golf and the golf that I've played... My dad was a big golfer and I played a little bit of golf very poorly in my life. Marissa: Don't be modest, Mark. Mark Miller: Yeah. So it's interesting to me to think about just the challenges associated with teaching kids who are blind, anybody with a visual impairment, how to play golf. So, but my first question though really is around what was it like when you first decided that you were going to do this? Did you think about people with vision disabilities and say, "Geez, I want to teach this particular community how to play golf." Or, did you start working with someone with a visual disability? Because I imagine it's not an easy thing to think about. Like, if you think I'm going to go do this, there's probably a lot of things in your head like, "I'm going to have to work my way through a lot of challenges to be able to do this." What were those early times, when this was forming, like for you? Angie Ause: Well, I guess a combination of a few different things. Growing up, my mom was a nurse and provided home health care. And as she was finishing her career, she was a home health nurse with a gentleman with macular degeneration. He was a huge golfer, really good golfer, and he continued to play golf well after he had lost the majority of his vision. So I had that background, knowing that I'll be... Just because you've lost your vision, doesn't or shouldn't keep you from pursuing a certain activities like golf. So that was probably my first introduction to knowing that that would be possible. Angie Ause: And then next was getting into the field of low-vision, being a teacher for the blind, visually impaired. And part of what we call the expanded core curriculum of students with visual impairments is they should have access to everything from rec and leisure activities. And golf just seems like a perfect activity or sport thatM with some accommodations can totally be doable. And then since then, I mean, actually later on this afternoon, I have a lesson with a woman who is visually impaired, and she's hoping to participate in her first tournament of her life through the United States blind golf association. Mark Miller: Wonderful. Angie Ause: So very, very nervous and trying to get ready for the tournament coming up in July. Marissa: So Angie, you mentioned, talking about accommodations without vision or blind people, can you talk to us more about those accommodations? Angie Ause: Yeah. Specifically with golf. So if you are going to play golf in a tournament, or just you are getting introduced, more than likely you're going to need a guide, or what the Blind Golf Association calls a coach. And that person is allowed by the rules to help line you up, set your club down, make sure that you're ready to go. And then we'll stop the ball. It's up to the golfer at that point to go ahead and do the magic, and actually hit the ball, but they are allowed to help lining everything up. Angie Ause: Otherwise, when I am working with a new golfer who is blind or visually impaired, who has never played, there's a lot of different things that we'll start with, that we can adapt. We can start with a lot of tactile. So on the grip, sometimes for a sighted person, they can see that the club face is what we call square and all that. So if you're not able to see that, we have some like grip molds that you can place your hands on, that will guide your hands to be in the proper position. Marissa: Oh, that's cool. Angie Ause: Yeah, those types of things. When I'm working with a sighted person, you're doing a lot of demonstration, a lot of visual demonstration, where this might be more auditory and tactical cues, or moving them into certain positions to get them to feel certain things. So those are a few examples, I guess. Marissa: [crosstalk 00:07:57]. Mark Miller: I think I've decided Angie that I would be a much better coach than an actual golfer because lining up the shot and spotting it really good, and all that stuff, it all goes wrong when I try and hit the ball, that's- Marissa: Yeah, exactly. Let's all announce to [inaudible 00:08:13] Mark [crosstalk 00:08:13]. Mark Miller: Yeah, no one else's looking at it. That's fine. Marissa: Yeah. Mark Miller: That's really cool. And I guess that makes sense that those types of things would be what a person, who's blind, would need to be able to play golf. It's really interesting to me that, talking about that grip as a physical accommodation, are there other actual physical accommodations or things that a blind golfer would use that may be a sighted golfer wouldn't need or wouldn't use, or is it really comes down to that grip and that coach? Angie Ause: Yeah, I would say when you're out there playing... Actually, probably the rules of golf wouldn't technically allow a player to use that adapted grip, but as you're learning the grip... Grip is probably one of the most important things, I think, as far as your golf game... But no, they're playing without really any other accommodations to the golf club. Although, during the learning process, I would say that's where we would use a lot of different training aids, again, just like I might with a sighted person with more that tactile feedback and aesthetic feedback there. But yeah, other than that, they're just teeing it up and going on that mental map of where that the golf ball is, and what the swing shape it's going to feel like to them. And it takes a lot of trust and just letting it go. Not easy, but... Mark Miller: When I think about what I've gone through trying to learn how to play golf, and the visual feedback I think is so important that once you finish with your swing, and you're watching that ball travel, that's when you understand if you've hooked it, if you've sliced it, if you've chosen the right club, if you've hit it properly, so it has a proper flight. And then, I know somewhere in my subconscious, all that data is being sort of churned around and that may change what I do on the next strike, or on the next swing, that coach must be giving that feedback in real time after that swing. Are they saying, "Your ball is slicing, your ball is hooking, you shanked it a little bit." Or, whatever the... Angie Ause: Sure, definitely. And oftentimes, the player will know, they'll be like, "Oh, yeah." You could feel, or you can use the sound of... When you hit a ball really solid, it feels so good and it sounds so good. And oftentimes, they'll know right away, "Oh, I tapped it." Or, "I hit behind it." as far as the contact goes. Angie Ause: As far as the direction, I'd say that could be a little trickier depending on the ability level there. But for someone maybe who had played golf prior to losing their vision, they might have a pattern in their ball flight that they typically hit it right to left, or left to right where they might know that, where someone who starts golf after they've lost their vision, might not have that history of, like you said, visualizing or seeing that ball flying through the air. Angie Ause: But yes, then the coach would pipe in and just say, "Yep, nice hit." Or, "That ended up on the left side of the fairway." Definitely a lot of that verbal dictation and narration of the rounds. Mark Miller: Do you find that the golfers who have been blind since the beginning, or low vision since the beginning, they don't have any experience with playing golf with any type of sight, is that an opener for any other type of sports or activities? Because I feel like if I were blind, I would probably be intimidated to do a lot of contact sports or skiing. One of our colleagues, he's low vision and he goes skiing, and that would just terrify me. I don't know how he does it, but golf, I feel like that could be something that I could handle. It's not intimidating. You're not really scared about ball coming at you, or anything like that. So do you find [inaudible 00:12:58] an opener in any way for other types of activities. Angie Ause: I would hope though. I think, historically, I don't think golf has always been the most welcoming and accessible sport for a lot of people. Mark Miller: Or anyone. Yeah. Angie Ause: So I hope that's changing. And I know all the allied golf associations have really been trying to grow the game, and all those taglines of grow the game. So that would be my hope that... Again, I think it's a great sport for so many reasons. You're socially, you're getting out there and meeting new people. You're getting exercise. If you want to be competitive, you can. If you don't want to be competitive, you don't have to be either. You can take it where you want. And I think this is a generalization, but statistics show, people with low vision, blind, visually impaired, they don't always have access and the opportunities to participate in other activities. Angie Ause: So like you said, if that can be the gateway sport to getting their confidence up, meeting new people, trying new things, that's huge. Dara: Mm- Mark Miller: Oh, go ahead, Dara. Dara: Oh. I wanted to ask, you've been teaching golf for a while, what have you learned about teaching over time since the beginning to now? Angie Ause: In general? Mark Miller: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Angie Ause: I think the biggest thing is listening to why your student is there. I mean, everyone wants to participate and learn golf for many different reasons, and as long as you're... And not everyone wants to be a scratch player... And so I think listening to what kind of goals that they want to work on, is really important. And it's supposed to be fun, I think. So often you see people get so angry and frustrated. And the good news is, you don't have to do that for a living and pay your bills by playing golf. This is supposed to be fun. So I think keeping things in perspective that way, it becomes more and more clear, the longer I do it. Mark Miller: So to me, like many sports, golf is really, it's so mental. Obviously, there's physical elements to it, but I think it's really, oftentimes, it's you against you. You're trying to improve. You're trying to mentally get into a space. I know like when you do a golf swing, you have to learn to feel that golf swing. It's not like you're sitting there being like, "Oh, twist a little this way. Do a little this..." every time. When you're successfully repeating it, is you've built those mechanics. You've built that feeling. It's so mental and you can really be in your head with it. And it takes a long time, like any sport, to really bring those skills into yourself in that way. Do you find that people who are blind, is their pace the same? Are they going through and achieving the different steps in the same pace as somebody who's sighted, or is it quicker, or does it take them longer, or some things better? I guess, what kind of challenges do you really see in comparison? Angie Ause: Yeah. So I'll use that overused phrase, it depends. It depends on the person. Everyone, I like to think, comes from their own little experiences of other games and activities and sports that they've played in their life. So I think there's that portion of it. Other injuries or flexibility, those kinds of things all always play into it as well. But as far as that process of learning, some people are real visual learners, some people really are feel, and some are more rhythmic or auditory learners. So part of that is breaking down where people are at, how they learn. Angie Ause: But I would say, whether you're visually impaired or a sighted person, I think that how fast someone improves is all over the place, but it can be set up with drills or training aids that provide feedback. If you're practicing without any feedback, that is just, I feel like going to take longer, and longer to work on that move that you've been working on. Angie Ause: There's that whole real versus feel theory out there where if I know cognitively what I need to be working on in my slam. Yeah, that totally makes sense. But then I get in there, and I'm practicing, "Yeah. I'm getting it." But if I were to measure it by videoing it, or again, maybe it's some kind of external cue with a training aid, I'd be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not even close to where I thought I was." And then that's just going to take that process so much longer if you're working on something without measuring it, I would say. So I think that could be very similar process with someone who's sighted or visually impaired, if they're practicing the right way with those external forms of feedback. I think that really helps. Angie Ause: And then it comes down to the motivation and the desire again, right. I mean, not everyone is going to get out there and want a practice, or has the time to practice. So they make it attainable for what their level of interest and motivation, I guess, that makes a big part of it as well. Not everyone can give up several hours a day to work on something. Mark Miller: Like golf anyways, that would be- Angie Ause: Yeah. Yeah, right. Mark Miller: My dad just retired, so I'm hoping that... He now can give up several hours a day, something like that. But until then, it's hard. Mark Miller: What would you say, over the years working with people who were blind, teaching them golf, what's been the most surprising thing that you've discovered? Angie Ause: Hmm. Mark Miller: Pretty open-ended, huh? Angie Ause: Yeah. I don't know if it'd be surprising, or just how... I guess it's more of just an observation, I guess of... I had this one student that I worked with for probably three or four years in this school, and she's just one of those kids that you're going to talk about and think about forever and ever. Just a lot of things working against her, but yet her attitude and passion for life, it's just outstanding, and how much joy can be had by introducing someone to golf. And maybe it doesn't mean that they're going to be out there and play every week, but just having had the opportunity to try it, try something new. She rather [inaudible 00:21:30] have them invite a sibling or a friend if they want it to come, because that's who maybe they're going to be playing golf with. Angie Ause: And you don't have to be great to get a lot out of golf. So just watching her enjoy, participating, and again, having access to golf and going through that is... Again, it didn't surprise me, but it made me put it in a perspective that, "Hey, it's about getting out there and trying something new." You don't have to be great at it, I guess, right away. Now she's the type of person that wouldn't surprise me if she ended up getting really good. But that's maybe not the important lesson here. Mark Miller: It sounds to me a little bit what you're expressing there is just the overall reward, that's, one, associated with just teaching. I do a lot of teaching myself and people ask me like, well, why do you go do... You've got a job, and why do you spend your... It's like going to a second job. Why do you spend your time doing... And it's because of the reward. It's because of that feeling of giving back. And I hear a lot of that and what you were saying. And then I think that if it's somebody who's blind that may, and you're helping them realize, and connect, and participate in a way that maybe they wouldn't have found without you, that's got to be even more rewarding. Mark Miller: So I think maybe what you're saying, if I can put words in your mouth as part of the surprise, or part of what you've discovered, is just the reward associated with helping another individual discover something like that and help them enrich their life, or something like that. Angie Ause: Yeah. And my long-term plan here... I mean, I'm going through Orientation Mobility Certification at the moment too, so working with people, travel skills, and all of that. But my long-term plan, I would like to get a league going. So do some camps, continue that with kids, but also get some of that consistent opportunities for adults and or kids to participate in a league week in and week out. So that's [crosstalk 00:24:13]. Mark Miller: Do you have adults and kids that play together? Angie Ause: To this point, I haven't had that. Generally, I do a kids camp in the summer, and then have worked with a few individuals, adults with some lessons, and a program when I was over at the university of Minnesota, we did a couple adults camps over there as well. But never together. That'd be a fun thing to introduce Mark Miller: Part of what makes me think of that is just the mentorship aspect of it. If you do have a young person that has a vision disability, and they're trying to find their confidence, and to introduce them to an adult who has been successful in [inaudible 00:25:03], in life, and all that kind of stuff, and create a little bit of a bond and a friendship. And it's probably the conversations that they have when they're having lunch after a game, that really would be rewarding there. But just was wondering if that had been put together, but maybe that's a thought, because we all need that. Angie Ause: Yeah, I wish. Mark Miller: And I needed that when I was a kid, and as somebody with vision. And I think that... and it's like individuals, it's people who have similar challenges to you that can really be most effective. Angie Ause: Yeah, absolutely. And in St. Paul schools, with COVID it's been our unique challenges there, but what we usually like to do as a family night, where kids get together with their families, and then we have someone that maybe has graduated, or in high school, that has experienced a lot of things. And we'll come back and speak to the families of students who are younger to know that, "Hey, just because I have a visual impairment doesn't mean I can't be successful and do the same things that my sighted peers are." Mark Miller: Right. Angie Ause: So that's always really stuck out to me as a great thing to keep in mind and continue to do, because we all need those, those mentors and examples of being successful. Mark Miller: Yeah. For sure. You mentioned the pandemic a little bit, how has that affected what you do? Angie Ause: Oh, it's been rough, but there's always positive, I guess, out of it. So at my current job in St. Paul, we wanted to create more of a social opportunities for kids because so many of them feel so isolated in general, but with the pandemic even more so. So we decided to do for our professional development program this year, we did each... Well, once a month on Fridays, we had either game day, or we did clay making and we joined by Google Meet. So we had a lot of kids join in, had a chance to converse, try a new activity to help with that. So that was definitely the positive, but definitely challenging for sure. Marissa: Yeah. Especially if you're doing the hands-on, you have to [inaudible 00:27:50] people. I mean, you can't do that. The social distancing is completely anathema to that. Angie Ause: Yeah. Yeah, we're all looking forward to getting back to school for sure. Marissa: [inaudible 00:28:05]. Mark Miller: Well, thank you so much for sharing all this with us. I think it's just fantastic that you're out doing this. We love to hear people, when people are creating programs... I mean, it almost sounds like you've created a program that could live on, be replicated, all those kinds of things. And it's just great work. Mark Miller: Is there anything else that you think we should know? Or, Marissa and Dara, is there anything that you guys, any comments you want to make or questions you have before we wrap up? Dara: Oh, I just wanted to ask just, this is very basic, but what drew you to golf? You've been playing for a long time, what made you want to start? Angie Ause: That's a funny question because the first time I was introduced to golf, my family, it was a Sunday, and I have two older sisters, and they wanted to head out and have a family day. And my parents thought it would be a great idea to go golfing, and bring someone that had never... I didn't know what golf was and I just thought this was the dumbest sport ever. I was like, "Why would anyone even want to play this?" And that was when I... The summer, I think between sixth and seventh grade. Angie Ause: And then that next year in the spring, our sports in our middle school, they got all cut. They cut them. And so I was like, "What am I going to do?" I thought, maybe play softball. Or something. And my mom was reading in the paper that they literally needed like warm bodies in the high school golf team. And she was like, "You should try golf." And I'm like, "I don't know." And she's like, "Just give it a try." So I did, and I had a slightly different experience that started off a little different, and I just got super addicted. Marissa: That's great. Angie Ause: So that's a good thing to remember if your first introduction to golf isn't always a good one. Just give it another try. Marissa: Yeah. See, Mark, there's still hope for you. Angie Ause: Yeah, that's right. Mark Miller: I've given it lots of tries. I've actually gone through the addicted stage that Angie's talked about. It's been several summers. I found that the inexpensive golf course around, where you could play all the time and it didn't break the bank, I think at the right time of the week, you could play for like 10 bucks or something for [crosstalk 00:30:36]. It was something ridiculous. And I'm like, "Whatever. Whatever it gets me out there." So it's funny how, on the surface, the sport looks... I get it, especially if you're a kid in seventh or eighth grade, you want things that are fast, and exciting, and [inaudible 00:30:56], whatever's going on. And golf, it seems like this real boring, slow paced thing. But man, when you get that first taste, I think, of hitting that ball well once, doesn't even have to be really well, just like kind of okay. And you're like, "Wait a minute. I need to bake this. I need to get better. I need to get better." And then you [inaudible 00:31:20] spend some time. Angie Ause: Yeah, the course that opened by my house that next summer, it was $75 for all the golf you wanted all summer for kids membership. Mark Miller: [inaudible 00:31:31]. Angie Ause: My parents, they'd literally dropped me off in the morning, pick me up when it was dark. And I was just a weird kid. I play with whoever, I play with 90 year olds, and anyone. I just feel like, you want to go play? Marissa: That's amazing. I love it. Mark Miller: I've got this vision of you Angie, as a young person playing golf every day in the summer, is that like your summer of hustling, right? Angie Ause: Totally, yeah. Yeah. Mark Miller: She's like [inaudible 00:32:03]. Angie Ause: Pretty much. Mark Miller: It's like these older people coming up thinking, "There's no way this kid can beat me." Something else, huh? Angie Ause: Yeah, pretty fun. Mark Miller: Yeah. That's awesome. That's fantastic. Well, it's been super fun. Angie Ause: Thanks for having me. Marissa: Angie. Mark Miller: And learning about this, I mean, I think just your perspective on the game of golf is fantastic. And certainly your work and your perspective on getting people with vision disabilities introduced to the game, I think is amazing. And I hope one day to be beaten at golf by one of your students. Angie Ause: Awesome. All right. Mark Miller: Anything else before we wrap up? Nope. All right. Mark Miller: Well, thank you guys so much for a great podcast. Great topic, great discussion. This is Mark Miller thanking Angie, Marissa, and Dara, and reminding you all to keep it accessible. Mark Miller: This podcast has been brought to you by TPGI, the experts in digital accessibility. Stay tuned for more Real People, Real Stories podcasts coming soon. Mark Miller: (music).